🧺Intuitive Eating & Building Resilience with Amber Hanson
One of the big questions of Departure Menopause is how we can support deep health during the menopause transition, without the focus on weight.
Intuitive Eating, a model of non-diet nutrition, was created in the 1990s by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch. It’s been the subject of hundreds of research studies.
This week, I’m thrilled to have Amber Hanson, LN, CNS, join us on the show to discuss her work, which focuses on improving people's relationships with food and their bodies through a weight-inclusive approach grounded in Intuitive Eating principles.
Tune in to hear:
🪴 An understanding of the principles of Intuitive Eating
🪴 Examples of Intuitive Eating in practice
🪴 How we might engage with Intuitive Eating if our interoceptive awareness is different with neurodivergence
🪴 Amber’s experience of perimenopause
🪴 Our discussion on the cringe-ier aspects of “nervous system healing” and what’s feeling helpful here
🪴 Melinda and Amber’s low-caffeine and alcohol journeys
Resources & References:Whole You Nutrition, Amber Hanson, LN, CNS
Amber’s blog post on navigating body changes in perimenopause
Intuitive Eating Workbook - I recommend people start with the workbook, which is recently updated, then move to the book, if you want the deep dive. - Melinda
Peter Levine “Voo Breath” https://youtu.be/n1bPdbBF1Ck?si=kYWBPcmGrSo2QRIs
🍝 Download the FREE Regular Eating Guide📮 Sign up for the Departure Menopause EMAIL LIST for Future Episode & Updates-
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Hello and welcome back to Departure Menopause. I'm Melinda Staehling, your host, and I'm here this week with my guest Amber Hanson, for what I think is a great conversation that spans from intuitive eating practices and principles to perimenopause, to nervous system support.
One of the big questions that we have here at Departure is how can we support deep health throughout the menopause transition without the focus on weight?
I'm excited to have Amber here today to join us and discuss her work, which is on improving people's relationships with food and their bodies through a weight inclusive approach. I do wanna start off today with offering my disclaimers. The first is that Amber and I do discuss intentional weight loss and dieting and disordered eating in this episode.
So please check in with yourself, check in with your body, and listen when it's the right time for you.
And then a different sort of disclaimer. I think this is our first episode where we dig into maybe a more specific modality, specific practice.
And I think there's some questions around whether or not intuitive eating is a modality or practice that's flexible enough for the neurodivergent community. And I think that's an ongoing question for our show and one that we'll be digging into more in the future. And from what I heard from Amber in our conversation, I was able to see some new ways how intuitive eating might be adjusted to suit each individual.
So that was my long-winded way of saying, take what you like and leave the rest. To introduce Amber Hanson a little more to you. Amber is the founder of Whole You Nutrition. She's a licensed nutritionist, certified nutrition specialist, and certified intuitive eating counselor with a passion for food and cooking.
She helps clients find peace with food, ditch body shame, and nourish their wellbeing using an anti-diet. Gentle nutrition approach based on the principles of intuitive ed. You can find Amber's work online at wholeunutrition.com. And I do wanna give a more specific plug for Amber and her practice, which does accept commercial insurance plans, which is amazing for access.
And I want to point you to her blog post on perimenopause because it's really well done, and I will link to that in the show notes. With that. Here's our conversation.
Melinda: I'm so excited to welcome our guest today, Amber Hansen, to the show. Amber, welcome to Departure Menopause.
Amber: Thanks. It's so great to be here.
Melinda: I'm so happy to have you here. I thought we could step into our conversation today with a little more about you and your practice. Can you tell us a a little bit more about your work as a nutritionist?
Amber: Um, I think the. Simplest way that I describe the work that I do with people is that I help people improve their relationship with food and their body. Um, I use an anti-diet, weight inclusive approach, and a lot of it is really based in the principles of intuitive eating.
Melinda: I think that it would be great to back up maybe a little bit, um. And go over a few of those phrases with our audience. Could we start maybe, I think, I think anti- diet is pretty self-explanatory, but is it okay if we like dig into what weight inclusive and principles of intuitive eating mean?
Amber: Absolutely. Um, and I do feel like doing this work every day, these terms, um, I get in my head about them a little bit and I think the general public is much less in tune to some of
[00:04:00]
the very subtle differences. So I, I try to use them a bit more interchangeably. But, um, I use things like weight inclusive, anti-diet, weight neutral.
Relatively interchangeably, just meaning we don't focus on body weight. Um, we try to support people in their health journey, without that focus on weight loss. And I know you've talked in, in depth about this on, on previous podcast episodes in terms of that weight loss piece and how that weight portion can interfere with, with other things that we're working on.
But really. I think at its most basic level, it just sets the stage so people can show up as they are and there's no expectation to what their journey needs to look like or that there's a specific end point that proves that they're successful or not in, in how they're living their life and taking care of themselves.
Okay.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. I love hearing that in your words, just because we all use these phrases, well, maybe not all of us, but I think a lot of us are using these phrases, but they still haven't really made it into, I would say. Like general public speak, so much. So it's nice just to hear it from you and where you're coming from.
Amber: Yeah, I do feel like it is an ever evolving landscape. Um, and we do see certain terms and phrases getting co-opted a little more than others into more of a traditional diet culture, uh, place, which is. Unfortunate, and I think part of the reason that the language continues to evolve and change and, um, kind of the vibe of certain terms change over time too.
Um, specifically related to intuitive eating, which I know is the next, you know, kind of definition. I, I, I'll give. But, um, Noom has really co-opted very specific phrasing from intuitive eating and they, they use that in their, in their ads. Um, and it's disheartening to say the least.
Melinda: yep, yep. We see it all the time. I don't think you can be on the internet without seeing some of that.
Amber: Yeah, absolutely. , And, and speaking of intuitive eating, so just kind of giving a definition for those who aren't familiar with it. Um, intuitive eating is, uh, based on 10 principles. It was created by two dieticians in the nineties. And these principles really are based on. I'm gonna throw out another term, interceptive awareness.
So the ability to listen to ourselves, respond to the signals that our body is giving, giving us an understanding like what those signals mean. These principles really just set up this structure. I find both with myself and working with clients, how intuitive eating looks is very different from person to person.
, But the basics that, uh, people may be most familiar with are things like honor your hunger and feeling your fullness. Um, there's definitely an important aspect of rejecting diet mentality. Um. Then just really taking care of your body, accepting where it is now, re showing it, respect, you know, doing a lot of self-care activities.
So it just gives a little bit of a structure to what can feel like a very big, scary thing to try to make changes in terms of how you relate to your body and how you feed yourself.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. So there's like the principles of intuitive eating and then there's also the practice and I'm, I'm wondering if you could give a few examples of what that might look like for a client. Or two when they're actually like doing the thing.
Amber: Yeah, and I would say that's where you see a lot of differences because there is overlap between what intuitive eating is and like what mindful eating is. So like the practice of actually sitting down for a meal. The idea of like being present, um, tuning into like how hungry you are, what you actually want to eat, how much feels good to eat,
[00:08:00] taking enough time during that process of eating to be able to check in and be like, oh, how am I getting full?
How full, you know? Um, just having that space to really check in with your body and how you're feeling during the process and being as present with it as possible. Which sounds hard and scary and really difficult for people who tend to multitask while eating it. It doesn't have to be like sitting alone in a room though.
So I always like to put that out there because it does sound so, so big, , and hard to approach. I think when I first heard about the idea of mindful eating, I'm like, well, that sounds tedious and horrible and I never want to do that. Um. But it's really, once you get better at listening to your body, which is what those principles help to support, learning how to listen to your body a little bit better, the mindfulness in eating becomes more second nature.
So I think that, you know, the actual practice of eating intuitively, eating mindfully, um, is. Wrapped up in the principles of intuitive of eating for sure, but the principles themselves are really more holistic and putting you in, uh, the space to take care of your, your body in a different way.
Melinda: Yeah, for sure. I wonder if we could go back to your relationship with your clients and like I would, I would just love to hear like a little bit more if someone comes to you really wanting to work on this relationship with food piece, where do you start with that?
Amber: That's a great question. And it does vary a little bit depending on the client. Um, particularly if there is, um. And very obvious like Undernourishment situation, it might be addressed in a different way. But for the average, let's just say the average person who has, you know, kind of yo-yo dieted or been overly aware of like wellness and health, um, in most of their adult life, I often start with pleasure and eating food that actually tastes good and that people like, , because I find that so many. Clients have denied themselves the things that they like in their life for a whole number of reasons. Um, including, you know, patriarchy and the like. Um, so focusing on like eat the food that you like. Let's start there. And it's really interesting to see. When people start to eat the food, they like, first of all, how that changes, how full and satisfied they feel after their meals.
And also the number of times that people are like, you know what, I don't actually really like that food. I've been obsessed with it for decades, but it's not that great when I actually let myself eat it. It's so, you know, a lot of these forbidden foods that people have can have this halo around them that when you.
When you give yourself permission to eat them, when you take away kind of the chains and the rules that surround it, the change in the relationship with that food can happen relatively quickly.
Melinda: I think I'm gonna go a little bit off script here because we do talk so much about the neurodivergent population on, on the pod, and. I, I wonder how you sort of come to using those principles, maybe with a neurodivergent client where mindful eating or in like interoception that feeling of hunger and fullness might not be so obvious as it with another, another client is that, how is, am I putting that okay.
Amber: Yeah, no, I totally [00:12:00] understand what you're asking. And I think a lot of the more recent discussion around interoception and interoceptive awareness has actually been in ADHD population, um, and studies that are done related to that. Honestly, most of the clients that I see do struggle with being able to pay attention whether they're ADHD or not, because years of dieting have taught them to ignore their internal signals.
That it's not safe to trust your hunger. It's not safe to be, you know, a certain level of fullness. Um, so most of my clients do need to go through this process of kind of. Retraining and tuning in. And so we use a lot of tools. I do a lot of structured like time scheduled eating with people, which might not sound very intuitive, but if you, if your signals aren't strong enough for you to be able to hear them, then we need to rely on external things to prompt us to eat.
And I have found, and in fact I've had more than one client say things like, thanks, now I'm hungry for breakfast every day. I used to be able to just. Skip it, and
Melinda: Damn you, Amber.
Amber: Yes, because we focused on eating breakfast at, you know, a relatively consistent time most days. And even after just a few weeks of doing that, those hunger signals that had been absent before get much stronger and to the point that people are not able to ignore them in the way that they have in the past, which I consider a
Melinda: I think if it's okay, I wanna, I wanna take it just like one step further because I do know that, you know, a lot of autistic, A DHD people struggle with responding to those cues even to, to pee, right? Or maybe you're on a med, like a stimulant med, and so that interoception just is not happening.
Like for the time that you're on that medication is there a way to still sort of step into intuitive eating if that's, you know, your way that you're coming to this?
Amber: Yeah, I think I, I do think there is, and. It will likely involve and maybe ongoing in the long term, those external reminders. So setting an alarm that it's time for lunch. And the biggest thing is respecting the alarm when it goes off. Like actually, you know, taking the time to respond to what you set that alarm for, um, is, is one way to do it.
And. I, I think of having that structure built into the intuitive eating process in some ways. Like if someone breaks a bone and they need some extra support, well it heals. We don't know how long it's going to take to heal, and maybe you'll always need some amount of extra support. Maybe it doesn't, you know, get set correctly and there's always some adaptation that needs to be made in the long term.
Um, but it's giving yourself enough of an opportunity to check in and I don't think there's anything wrong or that you're doing intuitive eating wrong. If you need to have, you know, a daily block on your calendar or a reminder to eat, um. You know, whatever, whatever that might take, um, to have those cues for you.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I love how much compassion you have for offering like a different way of giving those support systems. I think sometimes. It's easy to see intuitive eating and sort of see those principles, um, as written and maybe not feel like you have a way in, but it sounds to me like there are a lot of different options and like more and more flexibility coming into, into the program.
Amber: Yeah, there. There really is. And I think part of that is just the like social media ation of everything where you just get kind of a headline or a bullet point about what something is, and so there is a lot of compassion, self-compassion, um, understanding baby steps,
[00:16:00] making it very personalized. I would say all 10 principles don't even necessarily apply to everyone who comes through my door and wants to work on intuitive eating.
Some things just aren't an issue for some people.
Melinda: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, everybody's, everybody's so unique. You know, people, people come and see me for the first time. They're like, well, what's your plan? What's your protocol? I'm like, well.
Amber: Tell me about you.
Melinda: We're, we're gonna figure that out. And it might take, it might take a little longer than, than, you know, the first one or two, three sessions.
So Yeah.
Amber: Absolutely.
Melinda: Maybe we could, um, back up here a little bit and you could just tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you got to be maybe a, a later career nutritionist. What was, what was that story like?
Amber: Yeah. Uh, it was a very interesting journey. Um, it honestly started in my childhood. I would say I've probably been on some form of a diet since I was. 10 or 11, maybe even earlier. I mean, for sure, family members were always on diets my entire life. So I definitely got not explicit messaging about dieting, but heard conversations that the adults in my life were having related to bodies and food and what's good and bad.
Um, so I was definitely indoctrinated in the full on diet culture, totally a part of it. , And in fact, my. Undergraduate degree was in nutrition and dietetics. 'cause I figured if I go to school for this, I'll finally learn the secret to permanently losing weight and changing my body.
Melinda: will figure this out.
Amber: And spoiler alert, there's no secret because it just doesn't work that way,
Melinda: Yeah.
Amber: which was a very expensive lesson to learn.
Um. So my journey, you know, to becoming a weight inclusive provider was a lot of personal experience. A lot of trying all of the things. Um, 'cause although I did do undergraduate in, in dietetics, I worked in the food industry for a number of years before returning to get my master's in nutrition.
Melinda: Mm-hmm.
Amber: Um, and my master's in nutrition was functional medicine based.
So we loved an elimination diet. We like to blame everything on gluten and dairy and sugar. And guess what? Those are never the problems. I mean, sure there are people are celiac people have, you know, lactose intolerance and dairy allergies and all of those things. I don't wanna pretend that those things don't exist.
But yeah, taking gluten out of my diet for years did nothing to change my body. So it, it, it's not this, the secret, the bullet, the silver bullet that everyone talks about. Um, so I would say I got to be, you know, weight inclusive, weight neutral in a very. Messy, and probably at times, you know, our goal is to not cause any harm, but I do think some of my earlier approaches were not overtly harmful.
I think my heart was in the right place, but the messaging was still a little bit skewed. It was, I understand that diets don't work, but I was still suggesting, you know, a very quote unquote clean type of diet and avoiding processed foods. And so I went through a whole journey. With that, and it took a few years of, of being in private practice to really work through that for myself and untangle it and get my arms around a more holistic food is food.
Everything is, you know, a great option for feeding ourselves point of view.
Melinda: Yeah, I don't know if there's any way to do that sort of shift neatly. Like I don't, I don't know, you know, to co-op the word. I don't know if there's a clean way of moving from, from like more of a traditional like Diet [00:20:00] culture model of nutrition to a weight inclusive approach. I'm sure there was a point where I was talking weight inclusive talk and then also being like a anti seed oil, like propagandist at the same time.
You know
Amber: hear you. Looking back at some of the earlier, you know, handouts I used with helping people to like, you know, build a plate of food for meals. There were definitely little things like avoid seed oils on there, and now I'm like, whatever, eat the salad dressing that tastes good to you, if it like makes it easier to eat some vegetables.
Melinda: What
Amber: more important.
Melinda: for sure, for sure.
I think that might be like a great place to take us in to perimenopause. you wanna maybe let us know like a little bit more about, I know you work with perimenopausal clients, you wanna let us know a little bit about how you work with people and what you're seeing coming up when you work with your Perry clients.
Amber: I would say most of my clients, they have come in for a variety of reasons. So sometimes perimenopause is like a, oh, is that part of what's happening to me right now? Like, they're not aware of it, like they're not coming in because they're in perimenopause and looking for support. , But they came in for some other reason, like digestive changes or, um, sleep challenges that are impacting the way that they want to eat or feel like they can eat.
Perimenopause often comes as a little bit of a surprise, like, oh, I'm at that phase of life. Perimenopause can do that. Um. So it's really interesting and I am like right there with clients, like I am, you know, mid forties. I've been going through symptoms of perimenopause for at least the last two or three years, and I didn't recognize it as perimenopause when it first started happening.
It was retrospectively that I was like, oh, the fact that I was. Sweating horrendously from my boobs to my neck every day for three months was not just because it was summer and I'm sleeping in an air conditioned house, which should have like no impact on the amount of sweat in my sleep. It was only later that I was like, okay, I get that, that, that was definitely like one of my first perimenopausal symptoms.
And I do find that sleep tends to be a big one for clients. That clues them into the fact that something is different. Um, often it is either waking in the middle of the night or waking up very early and not being able to get back to sleep seem to be the first ones. And then that has such an impact on.
Food, food cravings, hunger levels throughout the rest of the day?
Melinda: Yeah, sweat and sleep and food. I am like, I'm arriving, I'm arriving here today on, no, just like a no sleep night. You know, one of, I don't know what time it even started. I think it was midnight and it was too hot. I was too hot and just fully awake by I think 4:00 AM. I got, like, I went back to sleep I think for half an hour.
But it does, it impacts everything. It impacts, you know, getting throughout the day and food for sure. And I think, I think it's hard to make that connection with how, with how much it impacts food, unless somebody is there to tell you about it.
Amber: Yeah, I agree. I know I've had that conversation with clients who are. their earlier, mid thirties or even in their twenties, who. Perimenopause is highly unlikely, not, not necessarily completely off the the table for everyone, but highly unlikely. And we spend a lot of time making the connections between poor nights of sleep and how that affects hunger and cravings.
The next day and following days. [00:24:00] So it is a factor not just in perimenopause, but really for all humans at all phases of life. Uh, but it feels particularly impactful during perimenopause in a way that's different than, you know, a late night in your twenties leading to, you know, I don't know, eating a little differently the next day.
'cause you're tired.
Melinda: Yeah, that, that bounce back just isn't there, that, that has left the building at this point. So
Amber: Agree.
Melinda: yeah, I guess it, it might be a good time, you know, to whatever level you feel comfortable. Do you wanna tell us like a little bit more about your perimenopause journey? Are there other parts and pieces to that going on?
Amber: Yeah. I actually keep a list in my phone whenever I have a weird thing happening. Uh. Under a title of, is it perimenopause question mark. Just so I have a running list of things when I actually do see my doctor once a year and, and talk to her, I would say I'm at a phase in my perimenopause where it's definitely happening.
But I'm still consistently having a period. It's, you know, relatively consistent. I was. Have been one of those lucky people who had a very regular period that came consistently, did not come with a lot of PMS or side effects. Um, so I'm making up for it now, is what I've discovered. I am.
Highly aware of when I ovulate now or when I'm supposed to ovulate. Whether it's actually happening anymore or not is, is hard to know each month. Um, but I definitely notice the most sleeplessness right around the time of, um, ovulation. And then the few nights before my period starts. Um, my period has also become.
More noticeable in the last couple of years. In
Melinda: up.
Amber: yes, but in terms of, uh, you know, what the flow might be from month to month can be really different. Um, but also I've started experiencing hormonal migraines and I've never really been a headache person, and so it's not every month. Which I'm very thankful for, but every couple of months or so, I'll get a headache that starts, um, right around the start of my period and nothing will touch it.
And it lasts for about two to three days. And it just, it's just there.
Melinda: yeah.
Amber: We've just learned to accept it and, and live with it as much as possible. But that's been one of the more, um, unsettling things. It's, I, it's given me so much empathy for migraine sufferers.
Melinda: Yeah, as, as a long time migraine person, that is a whole side quest to go down and I am just so sorry because there's nothing, there is nothing good that comes from having a migraine. It just, it just sucks, like,
Amber: Yeah. And it, it, it shocked me the first time it happened 'cause I've always been a person where if I did get a headache, I could pop a couple of ibuprofen and it would, for the most part go away and I wouldn't really have to think about it. So having something where the usual methods of treatment just.
Do nothing was, um, a sh shock to the system to say the least. Um, yeah, those have been kind of my biggest, the sleeplessness. Um, I've always been a relatively, um, hot, like running hot type of person, but the, the amount of sweat that is now produced by my body is. Amazing and surprising at different times. So, um, those are my biggest things. I'm not yet to, I'm completely open to hormone therapy, but I have not explored it yet. I've had some not super great experiences with like hormone related birth control in the past, and although I know they're not the same thing, it does make me a little [00:28:00] bit hesitant to.
W go down that path where I feel like my perimenopause symptoms are still relatively manageable, like disruptive, but not so disruptive that I can't do what I need to do
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah.
Amber: currently. So we'll see what happens in the next few years. I'm definitely open to it if it, if it helps.
TK
Melinda: Yeah. The first time that you and I chatted, which was so fun, we, we got into a little bit of a talk about nervous system and nervous system healing, and I wanted to bring that up again because there's part of me that feels like that is such a buzz word and I hear it coming out of, you know, right now I hear it coming out of everyone's mouth.
I hear it coming out of like the g griest of grifters. But then it's also huge in the nutrition and therapy world, and we have these practices like meditation, um, and other, you know what I'm gonna call like maybe nervous system therapy practices. I just wanted to open that question up because we had such a nice talk about that and hear a little more from you.
Amber: Yeah, I agree. It feels. Uh, it, it does give me the ick a little bit in hearing people talk about it, although, if I'm honest, uh, hearing a lot of people talk about perimenopause in the way people talk about perimenopause gives me the ick too. And same with a adhd. I feel like these are all topics that are so buzzy.
Melinda: Yeah.
Amber: They're all very important, but they can easily be manipulated, um, in a way that is not helpful, not supportive, and more of a money grab. Uh, but with the nervous system, in a lot of ways it ties back to intuitive eating and the interceptive awareness piece of that. Because that is really your body communicating, and one of the ways that your brain and your body talk to each other is through the vagus nerve, which is part of the autonomic nervous system.
And the conversation about the vagus nerve, I feel like can get very. Detailed very quickly. And in reality it is still really more theory than super sound settled science. Um, but I find that some of the most basic things that can support the vagus nerve, um, come with minimal to no risk attached with them, which can't be said about a lot of wellness practices.
Um, and. Because we know our gut and our brain talk to each other in some way that we're not able to directly influence. Um, doing things like nervous system support through deep breathing. one way that we can communicate with our body that we are like, we're okay. We can be in, you know, parasympathetic, rest and digest.
We're not, you know, we're not running for our lives right now. Um, that breath, um, is one of those ways that allows us to communicate with our body in a way that our body understands. Because I think so much of, so many of us live in our head. We're so good at, you know, trying to logic our way out of things or talk our way through things.
And if we can just get the brain to quiet down a little bit and sense what's going on in the rest of the body, I think that helps us with that awareness of, you know, hunger, fullness, digestion, um, relaxation, kind of all of those pieces. So I do love some vagus nerve support, even though it does feel cringey and have a really hard time finding resources for clients that don't end with some sort of message that I don't [00:32:00] love about, you know, eating clean or whatever.
Which probably means I just need to create more resources on my own. Uh. Breath is my biggest one. And I also love like singing humming or doing a vibrational type of
Melinda: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Amber: as a very easy entry point. 'cause you really only need to do a couple of rounds. So we're talking like a minute to be able to start to communicate with your body.
And I think everyone has their favorite. I've been doing a. Vu breath lately. Um, I think that came from Dr. Levine, who has written some books related to, uh, the nervous system, which I have not read. I came to his tool through other resources. , But essentially it's you take a breath in and then when you breathe out, you say the word V for a long extended exhale.
So. V and just kind of holding that as long as you can and you can feel that vibration in the back of your throat. . Just last week I had a client who's been practicing that say that she gets such tingles, like down the back of her body when she does that, and she's like, I'm not quite sure why it happens.
It feels weird, but it also feels good. Like, it feels like it's doing something, which I just loved that, that, um, explanation of, of her experience with it.
Melinda: Yeah, I think you know that that is the conversation, right, to the these practices. And I love how you mentioned that some of them. Are low risk. We don't have to spend a lot of money for chanting or breathing or singing in your car. Um, I mean, more and more I see that as recommendations for, you know, IBS support, which makes so much sense.
I know we don't have, you know, we don't have rock solid research, but we also have a little bit that stuff like that helps and like going on a, a car singing mission. If you're having that kind of distress, seems like a great tool in your toolbox. And then, and then at the same time, it just gets so weird when we like say nervous system like every other, every other thing is like nervous system.
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
Amber: I know it really does. I mean. I think part of the reason it's such a big part of the conversation and part of the reason it feels so cringey
Melinda: Yeah.
Amber: is that it does, our nervous system does have such a huge impact. I mean, I think the term nervous system to me feels like it's an evolution of what we used to just refer to as stress or anxiety.
It's like the new terminology that people are using and in a lot of ways it's probably. A more accurate terminology to be using when discussing these broad things that can happen with the nervous system, including digestion and breathing and heart rate, and, you know, mood and immune function because all of those things are controlled by the autonomic nervous system.
Um, but the like. Part of the reason that, I mean, I've experienced myself that it's been very helpful to do some of these practices, and I am a, uh, non-meditation person. Like, I can't meditate to save my life. It is just not, it is not how my brain operates. Um, but I find that these breathing practices or the, the chanting or humming.
Is really soothing to me. So like from personal experience, I have found that it does calm my system down and I know some of the research is suggesting that you can see the impacts because I have clients, I don't know if you do, I have clients who still want to see like. Some sort of numerical or testing data to show that things are working.
I think we're just trained where it's like, well, I need to, I need something that proves that [00:36:00] it's changing. I can't just trust that my body is telling me something is changing. Um, and there's indications that, um, things like heart rate variability change when people are more. Supportive of their nervous system using some of these like breathing, um, or somatic types of practices.
And, you know, if, if anyone is in a position that they are using in a helpful, not harmful way, something like a fitness tracker, most of them do. Track heart rate variability and over, we're talking like months, not days and weeks, but over months. People can see that shift upward in heart rate variability when they're doing a little bit more to take care of their nervous system. And even with all of the, you know, breathing specific type of practices, I still think the best way to take care of your nervous system is to eat regular meals and sleep regularly and just like care for your body as. Human bodies require, require care in that way of just like meeting those basic needs is probably more important than a breathing exercise.
But in a hard moment, a breathing exercise is a nice thing to have in your back pocket to help calm yourself down and regulate a little bit more.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. There's like, there's specific tools for the toolbox in those moments. I mean, I'm thinking about myself like I. I'm on a quitting caffeine journey just because I don't know if heart rate is increasing during perimenopause. Maybe. I know the stress and anxiety is migraines increased, so I'm like, I'm gonna give this thing a shot.
And I was laughing at myself a couple weeks ago. 'cause I'm like, here I am being this nervous system Critiquer. And then at the same time, like. Taking out caffeine, which seems like that, that, I guess that kind of goes in your, your, your bucket of just basic support. Right. Like, if it's not, if it's not working, it's not working.
Amber: exactly. I mean, I've been on the same journey. I've been mostly caffeine free for five or six years now. Um. I do decaf, which has a small amount of caffeine in it, but I just like the ritual and taste of coffee, so I can't completely quit
Melinda: rip my decaf out of my cold dead hands, Amber.
Amber: Um, but let me tell you, when I go out, um, I meet friends for breakfast about once a month and I'll have a regular coffee when we go out. 'cause it's just easier. Uh, I feel it in. Very intense ways now, almost to the point of, the same way that I might feel after having an alcoholic beverage. Like it feels like my system just feels so buzzed in like a not natural way to me now.
Um, it's weird.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah, we don't, I think it's one of those, one of those substances, I mean, what is it, 90% of the people in the country drink caffeine? Something. I mean, it's like high, high. So until you take it out and add a little bit back in, I don't think that you really know like what's going on with the caffeine.
Amber: yeah. And it does feel after having taken it out, which was for sure a conscious effortful thing in the beginning. Now it's not an effort to not have it. And I've had a similar, I mean, it's very similarly mirrors my, um, experience with. Making peace with food and kind of bringing all foods, including processed foods back into my diet in a regular way.
And it's also mirrored my personal journey with alcohol where once I started perimenopause, alcohol really lost its appeal and I just have like zero desire to even have a drink anymore. And this is coming from somebody who used to work in. Kitchens. I was a chef before I went [00:40:00] into, um, corporate America, food industry, and then into nutrition.
And part of the culture of working in a kitchen is that you go out and drink after your shift. So it was just like. Such a part of my life and, you know, kind of that horribly cringey thing in my twenties of like, being able to keep up with drinking with everyone was like a point of pride, which feels so messed up now.
, So to be, to go from being that person to somebody who's just like, I'll just have a seltzer thanks with like no hesitation, no desire, not feeling like I'm missing out on anything. It's. Uh, it's really interesting and I think speaks to that power of like listening to your body.
Melinda: Yeah, yeah. My journey with like reducing the alcohol was a little more dramatic. You know, I really had to make a conscious effort, but I was also selling wine on the Las Vegas strip when it happened. So, you know, it was, it was a abrupt, it was an abrupt shift.
Amber: absolutely. Circumstance can change a lot of things. 'cause I think I've noticed this with clients and with myself in the journey of like changing my relationship with food where I might continue to do or eat something in a way that doesn't feel good to me. But I'm not quite to the place where I can fully make or embrace the change yet.
I just kind of have to live through the reflection of this doesn't feel right, but I'm not ready to. Do anything different with it yet. And I think that's an important phase in the The change model.
Melinda: Yeah, just sitting with this is like not a thing that's really working, but I'm also just, I'm, I'm not gonna quite take the, the steps.
Amber: Yeah. Something should be different, but nah, not yet.
Melinda: I think, yeah, I think maybe I see, I see that as like a recent, um, part of my no caffeine journey.
Amber: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and.
Melinda: sucks yet again, but I'm gonna keep doing it another day.
Amber: And there is both with alcohol and caffeine. Um, there is a chemical component, like there is an addictive quality to both of those things, or a potential for addiction to both of those things. So there is more than just, you know, liking it or wanting it in that way. There's a pull to it in a stronger way
Melinda: Yeah, I'm, I'm like, I'm like excited that our nervous system conversation kind of like somehow came to this place because I think so often. At least when I'm talking about the griftier parts of the nervous, the nervous system speak, it's adding in these practices and these programs usually that are costly.
Um, but we don't talk so much about, maybe, maybe kind of like removing a few of these things like alcohol and caffeine that might be really actually stressing your nervous system. Like yeah.
Amber: absolutely. And like how can we, you know, and this is like the perimenopause question, how can we support good sleep? How can we feed our bodies? Like those are the bases of how you build. Uh, you know, happy, resilient human, and just adding in a breathing practice, but not changing anything else in your life is not going to make you feel better in the long term.
Melinda: Yeah.
Amber: But it can be a nice bridge to start with to use those tools until you can figure out how to get your arms around. The job stress that is, you know, driving more of that nervous system I balance or, you know, relationship or past trauma or whatever might be, might be leading to some of that deeper, deeper stress.
Um, I do get nervous with the griftier side of things too, that care isn't taken. With the traumatic life experiences that people might be, might have had that are [00:44:00] contributing to their current nervous system state. And I think going too fast and not having true support, um, on a personal level can make people feel a lot worse versus a lot better by doing some of these things.
So it's always good to, you know. I work specifically with a trained professional and not just watch a YouTube video.
Melinda: Yeah, I think that's such a good point about addressing maybe the trauma piece. I also see like a lot of it coming from maybe a more. Anti, uh, anti-medication. Um, specifically, maybe more like psychiatric medication, like anti-medication stance, which in turn is like, buy my program. You know, I'm like, oh.
Amber: No, that, yeah. That's so frustrating. You know, one of the things, um, that I talk to clients about, because I also do a lot of like how. Food affects mood and I don't do it from a, never take a medication. You can just eat your way to, you know, happiness and never think of depression or anxiety again, I think of diet as supporting those medications.
I think they can be incredibly lifesaving and, you know, nourishing our body helps. Those supports, like medications just work better in our system. You know, an SSRI doesn't create serotonin. We still need to have the nutritional inputs and building blocks for serotonin, but it makes our body able to use it longer and um, in a more helpful way for us.
But we still have to have the stuff to make it.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah.
Amber: Yeah, have a snack, take a nap, drink some water. You probably feel better.
Melinda: I think, I think that might be like a good place to sort of wrap up our conversation today. But I would love to hear my, my final question and your answer, um, from you, Amber, how are you departing from the usual in menopause?
Amber: It is such a great question and my head goes in a couple of different directions. Um. One is I feel like through my work with improving my relationship with food and body, I've just come to a much more accepting place in life. So just being able to accept the fact that this is the phase of life that I'm in takes off a lot of the pressure.
I know there's gonna be nights I'm not going to sleep well, but instead of trying to fight it or counting down the hours of sleep that I'm missing while it's happening. I just start reading a book in the middle of the night and know that, oh, I might be a little bit tired. Maybe I'll have time for a quick nap in the afternoon between client sessions, or maybe I'll, you know, try to go to bed a little bit earlier the next night.
Just accepting that. That's kind of the phase of life that I'm in. And then the other piece that I think of is I've really been working on leaning into. Non-tech, non-screen related things and finding pleasure in, uh, things like crafting, sewing, knitting, things that slow me down, that just by their nature take more time, that you can't shortcut or hack your way through, um, has been.
Honestly, very soothing for my nervous system to do activities like that. So I think those are kind of the two big buckets. That creativity piece and the acceptance piece have really helped me manage through my menopause journey so far.
Melinda: Such like good reminders and you know, we could go on an entire different side quest just on crafting and we probably should. So,
Amber: Yes.
Melinda: I think I'll put a pin in it today and just say thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciated your conversation.
Amber: Thanks it was so fun being here.